Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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Alrighttt guys new meta, new stuff!

So what mistakes are we making this time? Dropping darkrai? Allowing Skymin to glance at the tier? Dropping volcarona for some reason? Not banning bax? This first week is bound to be a fun one~

Now let's see... Walking Wake basically fucking rules the weather wars now, being solid asf on rain and sun (Weather ball goes hard against 3/4 weathers), gambit got trolled, lando got uber trolled (gravity is a small W tho) mola can give 267 wishes to basically whomever tf she wants AND can spam the hella outta scald again, I'm betting like 17 scarf flip turn hrott sets as part of my first 25 battles, (rest of them will be some form of weather) Gliscor payed off the gf devs to keep toxic, Torn is so fucking back, I'm hoping jirachi doesn't do jirachi things, and well, GARCHOMP IS BEATING THE UU ALLEGATIONS WITH THIS ONE YESSIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR (assuming bax goes)

Man I just hope ogerpon has a decent niche, she's pretty cute
 
How are people going to beat Bax Ghold Atails (+ Maybe Darkrai or munkidori) teams? I think this structure might be unhealthy for the metagame
 
Bax with leftovers under hail and veil with ice body is basically Blissey + dondozo + kyurem black + gliscor rn SOMETHING MUST BE DONE
 
Reasons why is think a alolatales sus might happen is because obviously dual screens in 1 turn, so it can enable bax even more it gets like ×2.5 defense from snow + veil so it can pretty much just live most hits Swords Dance and scale shot, it also makes mon like munki (maybe rai) able to get that nasty plot up and win, it also cancels out other weather's like sun and rain.
 
Glide got absolutely ruined you went from 70 bp to 55 in one gen you went from being able to 2HKO corv after a sd and now probably barely 3HKO so poor rillaboom, you need Tera and you probably can't 2hko, I get why nerfs happend because vgc or whatever but still nerfing it *That* hard was unnecessary imo what are your opinions on the glide nerfs
 
Glide got absolutely ruined you went from 70 bp to 55 in one gen you went from being able to 2HKO corv after a sd and now probably barely 3HKO so poor rillaboom, you need Tera and you probably can't 2hko, I get why nerfs happend because vgc or whatever but still needing it *That* hard was unnecessary imo what are your opinions on the glide nerfs
Glide nerf probably deserved but I think it should have just been to 60/65, I mean rillaboom will def appreciate it's best move back but unless you tera grass it just isn't the same
 
Another very interesting thing I found is that while alolan ninetails makes a god pair with Bax, it's also our best wall to it, resisting both stabs and taking neutral from eq which it can shrug off with max hp and threaten back with mb. Alomomola buffs are also good against Bax, as it can safely pivot on Bax or threaten the ice body variant with scalds.
 

ausma

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Yo, if you keep posting like this you might get banned
Try and keep your posting longer
Nobody’s getting banned for well-intentioned one liners, much less punished at this stage of the metagame where everyone is super excited about buffs to and the additions of their favorite Pokemon, and when there’s no metagame platform. In the long term—once the simulator is updated and changes can be put to practice, thread quality control will be heavier.

Even then, you are only really asked to stop unhelpful one liners by a moderator, and it’s only when you ignore us and keep doing so that you will be infracted. A standard posting infraction is a 1 point slap on the wrist in the grand scheme of things and is in and of itself not super common. As long as you’re not trying to be a troll or a jerk you’ll be fine.
 
Nobody’s getting banned for well-intentioned one liners, much less punished at this stage of the metagame where everyone is super excited about buffs to and the additions of their favorite Pokemon. In the long term, once the simulator is updated moderation will be stricter, however.

Though even then, you are asked to stop by a moderator, and it’s only when you ignore us and keep doing so that you will be infracted. A standard posting infraction is a 1 point slap on the wrist in the grand scheme of things and is in and of itself not super common. As long as you’re not trying to be a troll or a jerk you’ll be fine.
Is there an ETA for the teal mask update on showdown? Apologies if someone already answered this and I'm asking a dumb question
 
Viability Predictions - new/returning/newly-buffed mons

Uber:baxcalibur::darkrai::shaymin-sky:
OU, somewhere in the A ranks:ninetales-alola::manaphy::clefable::gliscor: ||:alomomola::garchomp:
Maybe OU, B ranks:Munkidori: :Fezandipiti: :kommo-o::Ursaluna-Blood-Moon: :empoleon: || :tornadus-therian:
UU/RU, but ranked above D:Ogerpon: :Okidogi: :Crawdaunt::Milotic::Jirachi::Torterra::Infernape::Mamoswine::Mienshao::Mandibuzz::Weezing-Galar::Vikavolt::Ribombee:|| :tyranitar: :rillaboom:
Likely D or UR, but usable:Sinistcha: :Sandslash-Alola::Ninetales::Poliwrath::Snorlax::Shiftry::Ambipom::Yanmega::Shaymin::Chandelure:
Unviable:Dipplin: :Arbok::Sandslash::Victreebel::Golem::Golem-alola::Weezing::Furret::Noctowl::Ariados::Politoed::Magcargo::Mightyena::Ludicolo::Volbeat::Illumise::Chimecho::Probopass::Dusclops::Dusknoir::Phione::Swanna::Trevenant::Leavanny::Cramorant::Morpeko:

Other notable changes:
  • Rain gets: :zapdos: :thundurus-therian: +Weather Ball, :basculegion: :Floatzel: +Flip Turn. Maybe Pelipper stays OU for the rest of the generation now?
  • Happy Lokix, Scizor, Roaring Moon and Goodra-H are gaining Knock Off :)
 
Calling it now that Baxcalibur, Manaphy, and Walking Wake will be banned by the time Indigo Disk is released.

Baxcalibur getting Scale Shot is literally game-changing and will make the SD set crazy to face as well as improve other sets, such as the Loaded Dice one, as well.

Manaphy being able to change types means there will be so few actual options to revenging it from full health, and it will be crazy with or without rain.

Walking Wake gaining Knock Off means Blissey becomes a piece of garbage after it takes the Knock and becomes useless the rest of the match since it'll be taking a million from hazard chip. Knock Off helps Wake turn Azumarill and Toxapex from checks into sitting ducks. Water Absorb Clodsire still checks Wake, but it'll be worse at doing so.

All 3 of these mons will need to be banned for the meta to be playable.
 
Preliminary thoughts:

-Thank god bax got scale shot + reliable veil support, now it'll be less controversial to get rid of it. Chomp will be fun to use as well, esp assuming Bax goes.

-I'm surprised none of the new mons seem overly minmaxed/broken in the way that things like Chien-Pao and Chi-Yu were. I agree with ausma that people were hating too much on Fezandipiti because it wasn't some 130 SpA/115 Spd demon, it has a very cool defensive typing + reliable recovery. The other two will probably be UU/RU when the dust settles. Toxic Chain seems somewhat uncompetitive though, so I'm not looking forward to that (at least the Three have HAs so they won't have to go assuming Chain does). Bloodmoon looks somewhat scary with CM + actual recovery, but it kinda has the same problems as base Luna. Ogerpon looks kinda meh and its mechanics are weird, but it might be good in lower tiers.

-Holy shit Manaphy with Tera. Between this and Legion getting Flip Turn, rain is eating well atm. Wouldn't be surprised if it sees the Uber tier again for the first time in generations.

-Alomomola with Flip Turn + Wish + Scald will be interesting.

-I don't think this idea will be seriously entertained, but please don't unban Darkrai. Its movepool is ridiculous, it has setup potential, and its offenses are only marginally worse than things that got banned earlier this gen.

-Sadly we have to wait for DLC2 for more defoggers and potentially the return of the move via TM.

-In general I think this early meta will probably be the most chaotic one, just looking at what's confirmed to be coming with DLC2.
 
bax goes from great > insane with scale shot and alolatales back. regular slowking hasn't been the default chilly reception user since we got glowking with home, but it has better type synergy with hard hail and got scald back. :ninetales-alola::baxcalibur::slowking: sounds like a dope core.

really, we're gonna see crazy weather wars. sand might not be as immediately scary to face but ttar gets knock which is dope as hell, and houndstone getting poltergeist makes it a legit good pair. if ttar still had pursuit that'd be everywhere on the ladder. :tyranitar::houndstone:

to the above points, rain got absolutely better with flip turn and weather ball back, and knock off on :walking wake: of all things.

...speaking of wake, he got scald too. maybe it's not his primary move over hydro, but you can definitely run both + dragon move + flamethrower on specs. :great tusk: gets smack down which could be fun. :slither wing: gets high horsepower which isn't nearly as good as eq would be but it's better for sniping :gholdengo: than stomping tantrum. proto-raikou exists now, right? that fucker is gonna be as strong as :walking wake: but electric.

I'd say "get your [extreme weather] clothes on" but I have no clue what's gonna happen

:altaria: is so back baby
 
Calling it now that Baxcalibur, Manaphy, and Walking Wake will be banned by the time Indigo Disk is released.

Walking Wake gaining Knock Off means Blissey becomes a piece of garbage after it takes the Knock and becomes useless the rest of the match since it'll be taking a million from hazard chip. Knock Off helps Wake turn Azumarill and Toxapex from checks into sitting ducks. Water Absorb Clodsire still checks Wake, but it'll be worse at doing so.
I think Walking Wake actually gets a little worse after the DLC, not better.
:Empoleon: walls all Speed-boosting Wakes, and is a pretty decent scout for spatk-boosting sun sets - you pivot to something like Glowking or Clodsire on a balance/bo team. it's not a hard counter but it's a safe switchin.
:Ninetales-Alola: :Pelipper: Both Snow and Rain are now much better, interrupting Sun from being kept up for the entire game.
:Heatran: this is a weird one but with Clef, Alolatales, Fezant and Monke, i think Tran will gain usage which can severely limit Wake's options on Specs sets.
:Gholdengo: this mon likes most of the DLC changes and will enable the better webbers (esp. Ribombee) as well as even more spikestack (Alo+Ting-Lu+Gholdengo is now a thing), both of which Wake dislikes


proto-raikou exists now, right? that fucker is gonna be as strong as :walking wake: but electric.
Not yet

-Thank god bax got scale shot + reliable veil support, now it'll be less controversial to get rid of it. Chomp will be fun to use as well, esp assuming Bax goes.
-I don't think this idea will be seriously entertained, but please don't unban Darkrai. Its movepool is ridiculous, it has setup potential, and its offenses are only marginally worse than things that got banned earlier this gen.
Strongly agree with both sentiments. Hoping they'll be quickbans, but a Bax suspect would be ok too
 
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